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	<title>Comments on: Lyrical Magical &#8211; Mildly Military</title>
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	<description>Unsurprisingly Still Single</description>
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		<title>By: Why does Nanoha serve? &#124; hontou ni sou omou?</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-30017</link>
		<dc:creator>Why does Nanoha serve? &#124; hontou ni sou omou?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-30017</guid>
		<description>[...] a timely note, DKellis posed and explored a fascinating question: Could Nanoha refuse to join the TSAB? Join the TSAB! Travel to exotic, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a timely note, DKellis posed and explored a fascinating question: Could Nanoha refuse to join the TSAB? Join the TSAB! Travel to exotic, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sheba</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29811</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 10:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29811</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt; TK, Goose, Sheba, and Tempest already hate me. Tempest and TK told me to leave. So I left.

What? I hate you?

No. It&#039;s more like, I don&#039;t get you. And it is irritating me. 

See, you have this whole plot well planned and just because Jimmy said that one element is not working as stated in  canon, you dropped it. People like Shou tried to help you, I believe you CAN still save it. But crap, if you think I hate you, you don&#039;t know what my hate is and who are the object of my hate, yes I mean that Sunrise fanboy and that guy forcing NanoFate on the community. Those are guys I hate. 
You? I don&#039;t hate you. Did you annoy me? Yes, at times, when I don&#039;t get what you are expecting from our creations. Do I like some of your ideas? Yes. And I told you to let the nerd rage go and pass by you, because you are not going to change the way we are.

It&#039;s like that South Park episode about Garrison, the gay community and the tolerance.

Tolerance meant that you have to stand and stomach everyone&#039;s points of views and opinions on various topic. You occasionally let go what is in your chest. But tolerance does not mean that you HAVE TO CHANGE for the sake of people you have to tolerate. As Garrison said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt; TK, Goose, Sheba, and Tempest already hate me. Tempest and TK told me to leave. So I left.</p>
<p>What? I hate you?</p>
<p>No. It's more like, I don't get you. And it is irritating me. </p>
<p>See, you have this whole plot well planned and just because Jimmy said that one element is not working as stated in  canon, you dropped it. People like Shou tried to help you, I believe you CAN still save it. But crap, if you think I hate you, you don't know what my hate is and who are the object of my hate, yes I mean that Sunrise fanboy and that guy forcing NanoFate on the community. Those are guys I hate.<br />
You? I don't hate you. Did you annoy me? Yes, at times, when I don't get what you are expecting from our creations. Do I like some of your ideas? Yes. And I told you to let the nerd rage go and pass by you, because you are not going to change the way we are.</p>
<p>It's like that South Park episode about Garrison, the gay community and the tolerance.</p>
<p>Tolerance meant that you have to stand and stomach everyone's points of views and opinions on various topic. You occasionally let go what is in your chest. But tolerance does not mean that you HAVE TO CHANGE for the sake of people you have to tolerate. As Garrison said.</p>
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		<title>By: al103</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29733</link>
		<dc:creator>al103</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29733</guid>
		<description>Thing should be noted about TSAB - TSAB is not military at all... but military &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; part of TSAB. TSAB is collection of all military, security and disaster relief organizations under the same roof... and possibly not only them (Saint Church knights are part of TSAB and IMHO SC as whole may be - after all they are right there in sphere of magical education with they magic schools).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thing should be noted about TSAB &#8211; TSAB is not military at all&#8230; but military <b>is</b> part of TSAB. TSAB is collection of all military, security and disaster relief organizations under the same roof&#8230; and possibly not only them (Saint Church knights are part of TSAB and IMHO SC as whole may be &#8211; after all they are right there in sphere of magical education with they magic schools).</p>
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		<title>By: DKellis</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29726</link>
		<dc:creator>DKellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 08:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29726</guid>
		<description>@TheBigN: I left the community because I was told by two of them in the IRC channel to get lost. (Except more vulgarly.) I&#039;m &lt;i&gt;staying&lt;/i&gt; out because I thought about it and realized that due to a conflict of personalities and beliefs, I&#039;ve managed to piss off or at least severely annoy just about every community regular. The bulk of the conflict revolves around my belief in Diplomacy Over Firepower, which also applies to online interactions.

TK, Goose, Sheba, and Tempest already hate me. Tempest and TK told me to leave. So I left.

@EcureuilMatrix: As I mentioned in the post, I think it&#039;s the Federation. It has a policy of non-interference in local (planetary) matters &lt;i&gt;unless&lt;/i&gt; it involves humanitarian issues, or if a criminal conceivably threatens a large enough population and the TSAB&#039;s help is explicitly requested. As for governance, it could be something like the US Federal Government (at least in theory): the individual states are free to enact their own laws and such, but they&#039;re still &quot;under&quot; the federal government, and the federal level trumps state level.

So your scale looks pretty good, except that I&#039;d add that for points 1 and 2, the TSAB also handles the fiscal aspect, to provide for a common currency. I think that if the TSAB could get away with it, it would also institute the common currency, or at least a fixed exchange rate, for point 3. This stuff is &lt;i&gt;important&lt;/i&gt;.

As for the limiters, it&#039;s probably something like that: a reassurance that no one unit can pose a destabilizing threat to the TSAB. A revolution may or may not ever be necessary, but what most people &lt;i&gt;truly&lt;/i&gt; want is a guarantee that they&#039;ll be able to &lt;i&gt;survive&lt;/i&gt; the post-revolutionary years, and that, subsistence-wise, tomorrow will end up more or less something like today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TheBigN: I left the community because I was told by two of them in the IRC channel to get lost. (Except more vulgarly.) I'm <i>staying</i> out because I thought about it and realized that due to a conflict of personalities and beliefs, I've managed to piss off or at least severely annoy just about every community regular. The bulk of the conflict revolves around my belief in Diplomacy Over Firepower, which also applies to online interactions.</p>
<p>TK, Goose, Sheba, and Tempest already hate me. Tempest and TK told me to leave. So I left.</p>
<p>@EcureuilMatrix: As I mentioned in the post, I think it's the Federation. It has a policy of non-interference in local (planetary) matters <i>unless</i> it involves humanitarian issues, or if a criminal conceivably threatens a large enough population and the TSAB's help is explicitly requested. As for governance, it could be something like the US Federal Government (at least in theory): the individual states are free to enact their own laws and such, but they're still "under" the federal government, and the federal level trumps state level.</p>
<p>So your scale looks pretty good, except that I'd add that for points 1 and 2, the TSAB also handles the fiscal aspect, to provide for a common currency. I think that if the TSAB could get away with it, it would also institute the common currency, or at least a fixed exchange rate, for point 3. This stuff is <i>important</i>.</p>
<p>As for the limiters, it's probably something like that: a reassurance that no one unit can pose a destabilizing threat to the TSAB. A revolution may or may not ever be necessary, but what most people <i>truly</i> want is a guarantee that they'll be able to <i>survive</i> the post-revolutionary years, and that, subsistence-wise, tomorrow will end up more or less something like today.</p>
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		<title>By: EcureuilMatrix</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29682</link>
		<dc:creator>EcureuilMatrix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29682</guid>
		<description>I agree with the administrative part: considering the TSAB&#039;s &lt;i&gt;terra cognita&lt;/i&gt; covers multiple universes, each with multiple galaxies, the diplomatic corps must be massive. Its intelligence agency nearly as much, I guess.

The TSAB fighting forces do seem to favor a softer approach to enforcement, what with non-lethal magic and very generous work release programs and plea bargains (Fate, the Knights, the Numbers). Strong mages being too valuable to be jailed unless necessary? Lack of prison space? Are there penal battalions? I mean, if you can get away with Conspiracy for Jewel Seed Hoarding, Grand Theft Linker Core and Attempted Orbital Bombardment, what about simple felonies?

On the matter of power restrictions, I suppose that the aversion of the TSAB to overly strong teams might have to do with their occasional problems with rogue mages. Culturally, TSAB would prefer professionalism and teamwork over power and skill, 50 A-ranks over 1 S-rank. I&#039;m now wildly guessing, but I&#039;ve always wondered over the TSAB&#039;s PR. Are limiters also for the purpose of reassuring people that no single unit can pose too great a threat? 

Which brings me to my great question: what is the relationship with civil authorities. Is the TSAB its own master? Under the purview of a single state, or an Interpol-like org under some sort of MultiGalactic United Nations? It seems that MidChilda itself is under direct administration. Earth and Alzus (Alzas?, not sure there) seem to be left mostly alone, being not advanced enough. Does TSAB have customs juridiction? Do they have a theory of humanitarian interference?

My own pet theory is a scale of governance:
1) TSAB direct administration; a minority of worlds, including mage-heavy worlds, some industrial star systems; a bit like military bases; everything under TSAB law.
2) TSAB indirect admin; civilian admin and TSAB law enforcement;
3) Protectorates;  Civilian admin and local planet-side enforcement, except in matters of magic felonies; TSAB controls surrounding space. Includes worlds unaware of universe at large, like NonAdmin#97
4) Semi-Autonomous: local admin, local law including magical law, local space, but interstellar space under TSAB
5) Independent Allied States, having treaties with TSAB on equal terms.


...Sorry, got carried away. There&#039;s just so much food for thought. orz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the administrative part: considering the TSAB's <i>terra cognita</i> covers multiple universes, each with multiple galaxies, the diplomatic corps must be massive. Its intelligence agency nearly as much, I guess.</p>
<p>The TSAB fighting forces do seem to favor a softer approach to enforcement, what with non-lethal magic and very generous work release programs and plea bargains (Fate, the Knights, the Numbers). Strong mages being too valuable to be jailed unless necessary? Lack of prison space? Are there penal battalions? I mean, if you can get away with Conspiracy for Jewel Seed Hoarding, Grand Theft Linker Core and Attempted Orbital Bombardment, what about simple felonies?</p>
<p>On the matter of power restrictions, I suppose that the aversion of the TSAB to overly strong teams might have to do with their occasional problems with rogue mages. Culturally, TSAB would prefer professionalism and teamwork over power and skill, 50 A-ranks over 1 S-rank. I'm now wildly guessing, but I've always wondered over the TSAB's PR. Are limiters also for the purpose of reassuring people that no single unit can pose too great a threat? </p>
<p>Which brings me to my great question: what is the relationship with civil authorities. Is the TSAB its own master? Under the purview of a single state, or an Interpol-like org under some sort of MultiGalactic United Nations? It seems that MidChilda itself is under direct administration. Earth and Alzus (Alzas?, not sure there) seem to be left mostly alone, being not advanced enough. Does TSAB have customs juridiction? Do they have a theory of humanitarian interference?</p>
<p>My own pet theory is a scale of governance:<br />
1) TSAB direct administration; a minority of worlds, including mage-heavy worlds, some industrial star systems; a bit like military bases; everything under TSAB law.<br />
2) TSAB indirect admin; civilian admin and TSAB law enforcement;<br />
3) Protectorates;  Civilian admin and local planet-side enforcement, except in matters of magic felonies; TSAB controls surrounding space. Includes worlds unaware of universe at large, like NonAdmin#97<br />
4) Semi-Autonomous: local admin, local law including magical law, local space, but interstellar space under TSAB<br />
5) Independent Allied States, having treaties with TSAB on equal terms.</p>
<p>&#8230;Sorry, got carried away. There's just so much food for thought. orz</p>
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		<title>By: TheBigN</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29668</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBigN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29668</guid>
		<description>&quot;It seems to me that a lot of people liked Nanoha for its battles, but because of the presence of the TSAB, yet a lot of the potential large-scale fights were nerfed because of the bureau, with Nanoha and co. forced to try to negotiate before fighting (though they end up engaging each other anyway) - clearly a result of the TSAB’s SOPs and such that you mentioned.&quot;

Same here, and I did like how that worked, though it&#039;s execution (lol limiters) needed a little work. One thing I also thought could have been an angle taken in StrikerS that wasn&#039;t was the attempt of the TSAB to distance themselves from necessary mage usage. At a certain point, I wouldn&#039;t have been surprised if the TSAB decided to declare magic unnecessary and subject to forced absolute permanent suppression. For a start. :P

And I&#039;d really like to know how a community forces someone out who doesn&#039;t really seem to be firestarting anything. Were there arguments that occurred about your ideas of things like that? Maybe a &quot;this doesn&#039;t fit what we want to do&quot; sort of thing? Either way, I find it a little annoying, though I don&#039;t know all the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"It seems to me that a lot of people liked Nanoha for its battles, but because of the presence of the TSAB, yet a lot of the potential large-scale fights were nerfed because of the bureau, with Nanoha and co. forced to try to negotiate before fighting (though they end up engaging each other anyway) &#8211; clearly a result of the TSAB’s SOPs and such that you mentioned."</p>
<p>Same here, and I did like how that worked, though it's execution (lol limiters) needed a little work. One thing I also thought could have been an angle taken in StrikerS that wasn't was the attempt of the TSAB to distance themselves from necessary mage usage. At a certain point, I wouldn't have been surprised if the TSAB decided to declare magic unnecessary and subject to forced absolute permanent suppression. For a start. :P</p>
<p>And I'd really like to know how a community forces someone out who doesn't really seem to be firestarting anything. Were there arguments that occurred about your ideas of things like that? Maybe a "this doesn't fit what we want to do" sort of thing? Either way, I find it a little annoying, though I don't know all the details.</p>
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		<title>By: Freshmeat the Dead</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29659</link>
		<dc:creator>Freshmeat the Dead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29659</guid>
		<description>To echo the above, agreed.
Something I believe about the TSAB, is that it &lt;i&gt;isn&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; a military force, but a peacekeeping force. A very militaristic peacekeeping force, but still. As far as I can remember, aside from certain large scale &quot;incidents&quot;, all TSAB activities we&#039;ve seen, or heard mentioned, have involved hunting down criminals. One could see the entire first season as an operation to retrieve illigal/restricted technology. Second season is much the same, but with known hostiles as the enemy, hence a suitable increase in military strength to deal with the matter, with Asura&#039;s upgrade and additional enforcers deployed. Third season is more of the same.
As far as I&#039;m aware, by the end of strikers, the only cast members part of the TSAB with confirmed kill counts are the Wolkenritter (Shamal likely only assisted kills). I consider Fate and Chrono as likely having at least a few kills as well, but that&#039;s mostly because of their line of work. One might note, that aside from Chrono and Shamal, all of the above mentioned are primarily melee fighters. One of the nice things about Nanoha-verse magic, is that it seems to be, unless the user wishes otherwise, non-lethal. However, this doesn&#039;t quite apply to melee weapons. Magic power might determine whether you break through to the target, but it can&#039;t change how many bones you&#039;ll break when that weapon connects. There are some examples of this, both supporting and not. Signum cleaving through Bardiche&#039;s shaft comes to mind, Subaru and Vita in general (it&#039;s just what they do). Fate vs. Scaglietti in Strikers 24 also comes to mind, partly because it shows Scaglietti not being broken and bleeding on the ground, after having been smashed into a wall, and also because it shows Fate specifically taking him alive. The wind-up to the wall smash easily could have cleaved him in half, had Fate chosen to strike with the edge instead of the flat. This of course, also leads to such legendary things as the Adoption Befriending of Vivio, and really any use of Starlight Breaker.
Brings me to another point about magic in the TSAB, they train people to use it in non-lethal ways. I&#039;m sure that there are units within it that are trained to use lethal magic, a kind of SWAT or something, but over-all I think it would be discouraged. Being able to use magic as a non-lethal weapon means, that if someone doesn&#039;t come quietly, then they can safely throw a Divine Buster or ten at them, without worry of the blast itself killing them. The ground killing them becomes a problem in aerial combat, which in hind sight, makes two of Nanoha&#039;s epic battles taking place over an ocean a rather shrewd choice.
...Did I really just type all that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To echo the above, agreed.<br />
Something I believe about the TSAB, is that it <i>isn't</i> a military force, but a peacekeeping force. A very militaristic peacekeeping force, but still. As far as I can remember, aside from certain large scale "incidents", all TSAB activities we've seen, or heard mentioned, have involved hunting down criminals. One could see the entire first season as an operation to retrieve illigal/restricted technology. Second season is much the same, but with known hostiles as the enemy, hence a suitable increase in military strength to deal with the matter, with Asura's upgrade and additional enforcers deployed. Third season is more of the same.<br />
As far as I'm aware, by the end of strikers, the only cast members part of the TSAB with confirmed kill counts are the Wolkenritter (Shamal likely only assisted kills). I consider Fate and Chrono as likely having at least a few kills as well, but that's mostly because of their line of work. One might note, that aside from Chrono and Shamal, all of the above mentioned are primarily melee fighters. One of the nice things about Nanoha-verse magic, is that it seems to be, unless the user wishes otherwise, non-lethal. However, this doesn't quite apply to melee weapons. Magic power might determine whether you break through to the target, but it can't change how many bones you'll break when that weapon connects. There are some examples of this, both supporting and not. Signum cleaving through Bardiche's shaft comes to mind, Subaru and Vita in general (it's just what they do). Fate vs. Scaglietti in Strikers 24 also comes to mind, partly because it shows Scaglietti not being broken and bleeding on the ground, after having been smashed into a wall, and also because it shows Fate specifically taking him alive. The wind-up to the wall smash easily could have cleaved him in half, had Fate chosen to strike with the edge instead of the flat. This of course, also leads to such legendary things as the Adoption Befriending of Vivio, and really any use of Starlight Breaker.<br />
Brings me to another point about magic in the TSAB, they train people to use it in non-lethal ways. I'm sure that there are units within it that are trained to use lethal magic, a kind of SWAT or something, but over-all I think it would be discouraged. Being able to use magic as a non-lethal weapon means, that if someone doesn't come quietly, then they can safely throw a Divine Buster or ten at them, without worry of the blast itself killing them. The ground killing them becomes a problem in aerial combat, which in hind sight, makes two of Nanoha's epic battles taking place over an ocean a rather shrewd choice.<br />
&#8230;Did I really just type all that?</p>
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		<title>By: Zeroblade</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29635</link>
		<dc:creator>Zeroblade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 06:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29635</guid>
		<description>You make some pretty good points. In many ways, the military aspect of the TSAB is important but the administration matters quite a bit too. I mean, judging from some little hints in and around the show, the TSAB dabbles in a lot of the areas that are as far from the military as possible. It seems to me that a lot of people liked Nanoha for its battles, but because of the presence of the TSAB, yet a lot of the potential large-scale fights were nerfed because of the bureau, with Nanoha and co. forced to try to negotiate &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt; fighting (though they end up engaging each other anyway) - clearly a result of the TSAB&#039;s SOPs and such that you mentioned. 
Still, much of the populace appreciates the action-driven portion, and I have to admit, while I do take a liking to the &quot;administrative&quot; aspects of the TSAB, action is still a staple portion of the series and I highly doubt that its position as a key element of Nanoha will be wavering anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make some pretty good points. In many ways, the military aspect of the TSAB is important but the administration matters quite a bit too. I mean, judging from some little hints in and around the show, the TSAB dabbles in a lot of the areas that are as far from the military as possible. It seems to me that a lot of people liked Nanoha for its battles, but because of the presence of the TSAB, yet a lot of the potential large-scale fights were nerfed because of the bureau, with Nanoha and co. forced to try to negotiate <i>before</i> fighting (though they end up engaging each other anyway) &#8211; clearly a result of the TSAB's SOPs and such that you mentioned.<br />
Still, much of the populace appreciates the action-driven portion, and I have to admit, while I do take a liking to the "administrative" aspects of the TSAB, action is still a staple portion of the series and I highly doubt that its position as a key element of Nanoha will be wavering anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Keroko</title>
		<link>http://check.animeblogger.net/2009/03/05/lyrical-magical-mildly-military/comment-page-1/#comment-29617</link>
		<dc:creator>Keroko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://check.animeblogger.net/?p=362#comment-29617</guid>
		<description>I suppose I could make a long winded speech, but really I can sum it up in one word:

Agreed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I could make a long winded speech, but really I can sum it up in one word:</p>
<p>Agreed.</p>
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